Reminder that the idea of “withholding sex” isn’t real because sex isn’t something anyone is entitled to get.

[Princess]

Reminder that the idea of “withholding sex” isn’t real because sex isn’t something anyone is entitled to get.
If a woman doesn’t want to fuck, then she doesn’t want to fuck. Trying to convince her that she is being abusive because she doesn’t want to have sex for any reason outside of having her period is bullocks because women have the right to not participate in sex for any reason they so choose.

However, lying and scheming your way into a women’s panties via PUA and redpill tactics, exaggerating traits and accomplishments, lovebombing, and other such things is the real abuse that should be seen in its true light as emotionally manipulative behaviour rather than “strategy” or “that’s just how men are”. The LVM that use these tactics should be seen as the manipulative creatures they are and the self-loathing male lurkers who identify themselves in this paragraph can die mad about it.

Essentially, women have the right to refuse sex for any reason and men should not have the right to have sex by any means necessary and come out smelling like roses (any means necessary almost always being leaving a woman worse off to get the dick wet). Again to the male lurkers, if you don’t understand where women are coming from when saying this then you can die mad about it; don’t go pming the women on here trying to have a “discussion” over this because we are not here to educate men to be decent. Go to the how-to-high-value subs to figure it out.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk. I hope you all have a happy new year.

 

[Princess]

Totally agree. I see red every time I glance at the relationship subreddits and see a comment like "you did something horrible to your wife and now she refuses to have sex?! SHE'S the abuser!"

Like duh. Being a bad bf/husband is kind of a libido killer.

Coercing a woman to have sex when she doesn't want it? Now THAT'S abusive.

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My ex was like that. Constantly and consistently he would coerced me into sex. After I gotten off work it never fails: I would be exhausted doing 10 hours at my job, commuting by bus and then walking a couple of blocks from home. He would always be worried about his sex life and his needs and because he was a man. I would tell him nicely that I didn't want any he would take advantage of that, begging, negging, lovebombing, coercion and above. Afterwards the deed was done I felt so disgusted afterwards because he wanted it and I didn't. I even read articles where I'm suppose to schedule sex and negotiate for sex but that wasn't the case and eventually whenever we were doing the deed I was so bored with it as well. I didn't feel great, I felt like a pocket toy. Used and just an object. He didn't turn me on anymore; he turned me off completely. I didn't get excited anymore. I dreaded having sex with him, it was a chore that he needed fulfilled every day. I honestly disliked having sex with him.

Then when I came home one day I just snapped at him for trying to convince me to lay on top of him, or bend over I was pissed off and anger after I have told him countless time I did not want to especially after I got off work. I was shaking in exhaustion just upset that he would do that and he almost punched me because I called him a bitch. Afterwards, I heard him say under his breath: "There isn't no right time to ask for sex."

Thankfully I was able to get out of this abusive situation and it pissed me off that all I was an sex object to him and he felt so entitled to sex.

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Do you know what bothers me the most (I've saw it many times even in IRL).

Those dudes are seriously not going to pick up their partner after work (or anywhere)? REALLY now? How much of a pussy can you be? Especially, knowing that as a woman going out after 6pm is kinda a nightmare.

If I was a man I would be making sure my woman is home safe, but yeah I guess that's just too much to ask "modern men".

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Yes, this frustrates me so much. Not wanting to have sex with someone that you are upset with is not "withholding affection." These same people will also claim to believe that you should never have sex just to please someone else. It's contradictory. So I guess the solution is that women should just not be upset in the firstplace and always be happy, mindless servants.

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It’s because there is a subconscious belief that women’s emotions are inherently illogical and therefore of little value, so us being rightfully turned off by LVM behaviour to the point of not wanting to be intimate isn’t grounds to refuse providing sex... so then it’s considered abusive.

Men, their peepees, and their flawed logic, I tell ya!

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the males of /deadbedrooms constantly screech this, and get multiple pats on the back and endless sympathy.

But the way they describe the entire situation is so bizarre. They're so close to getting it but their delusions, entitlement and 'blue balls' prevent them from a modicum of logic.

You love your wife and want to give and receive love in the form of your penis? Yet she's an evil harpy intentionally, maliciously and abusively withholding sex? Then why do you want to fuck her??

They legitimately think marriage vows = free use.

Their wife appliance is malfunctioning and they're all scratching their heads.

Maybe it's autonomy?? Nay, tis abuse.

 

[Princess]

Withholding sex and physical intimacy is a well-known tactic used by narcissists. My ex used physical intimacy as a weapon, and we didn’t have sex for more than 2 years in our relationship. This was a part of his cycle of abuse. He intentionally withheld and essentially forced me to beg for even a crumb of physical intimacy as a method to reinforce his insults about my body and who I was as a person.

If you feel the need to distance yourself this extremely from your partner, something else is very wrong. Periods of low sex drive or working through some issues ... that is one thing. No intimacy after a fight? Makes sense. We all go through ups and downs.

But imagine 2 years of being told you’re not good enough to have sex with. Trying to work your way back into their “good graces.” It wrecks you.

Intentionally and maliciously withholding sex (by either women or men) can be a part of a pattern of abuse if it’s designed to shatter your partner’s self-esteem. A decent person would just cut a partner loose instead of emotionally torturing them. Pretending that withholding sex like this isn’t abusive invalidates experiences like mine.

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It's being told you are not good enough for it that it's abusive. Refusing to have sex is not abusive.

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So me falling ill with several autoimmune disorders, including a hormone condition, means I'm abusive? That's nice to know. I lost my sex drive through ill health and ex boyfriends lack of empathy only made it worse. People don't want to have sex with an abusive/mean partner. Nothing wrong with that at all. We all have the right to say no. If I actually wanted to have sex, there's no way I wouldn't to hurt my partner. That's what you're saying and that isn't common at all.

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I think it's a matter of extremes. The problem in many relationship subs is that a situation like what you mentioned in your second paragraph:

Periods of low sex drive or working through some issues ... that is one thing. No intimacy after a fight? Makes sense. We all go through ups and downs.

will be labeled as withholding affection and abusive, rather than just a completely normal temporary reaction to an argument. There's are some who are so eager to paint a woman as being in the wrong, that they throw out all nuance and understanding of normal human behaviors.

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Truly sorry for your experience, but those forms of withholding are few and far between and not the type that is at the forefront of the no sex=emotional manipulation rhetoric. My post is to refer to the growing popular opinion that any time sex is refused by any woman, it is abuse. A decent person can just walk away instead of framing it as manipulation too.

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Hm I think the OP has a point here, it's rather the combination of destroying your self esteem with insults / degradation (a la "you're not worthy") AND withholding any physical affection (from a hug to sex) that is the abuse you suffered and is definitely a real manipulation tactic. However, as OP explained the situation she's referring to is any time that a woman says she doesn't want to have sex, not because he's "not worthy" but because she's tired, or they literally just had an argument, or whatever, men will say she's being abusive for saying no to sex. It's about them acting entitled to our bodies at any time they want regardless of our feelings or their actions, like they just killed your pet cat? Still have to have sex with them because MaRriAgE. Obviously you'd probably get divorced but that's the scrote logic being busted here. I think those two things are very distinct but could be easy to confuse.

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Exactly. I don't think anyone is denying that witholding affection with the intent to manipulate/ cause psychological harm is abusive. It's the fact that any time a woman witholds sex specifically, for any reason, it's viewed as an intentional attack on the man. Take a moment to imagine how self centered, how completely out of touch with your partner you'd have to be to not even consider that they may be tired, not feeling well, or even feeling lack of affection themselves.

I'd think that most of the time, medical issues aside, if they took the time to be supportive without the expectation of getting something out if it right then and there, they would get what they wanted in the long term.